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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Alioth Ursa
Virtual Warriors Axiom Vocation Alliance
0
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Posted - 2017.03.28 20:37:57 -
[1] - Quote
Hi!
As a seasoned meat for meat-grinding-machine I must agree with DRDNOUGHT (don't stop reading yet though )
I think many of the posts in this thread are using "ganking" and "wardec" almost interchangable. Being ganked is the spirit of the EvE and is desired. Having ad-hoc fight - even lost one - is exciting. You loose you (sometimes) learn you fly again in too expensive ship in to low/null you get podded again (we will eventually get you Jane Bourne!) The gatecamps suicide gangs and roams I see just as variation of ganking. It is FUN regardless which side you are on.
Now, when it come to the wardecs things aren't that smooth. Usually on one side we have one of big grinding seasoned corps. On the other side we have a small gang who have no chance to really fight back. Even if there are some seasoned players capable of serious pvp in this corp assembling carebears to be able to put some serious fight agains well-coordinated-pvp-gang is just not realistic. Also most of the fights are just not winnable due to amount of resource each side can muster (regarding both number of accounts and pure isk). In short best option if you don't want to get frustrated by impossible fights is just avoid them. But f you can't play after few weeks at most you start to ask "why am I paying for that"?
Being ganked and having fights will make player to stay and play. Constantly hitting the wall of wdec most likely will not. I would say wdecs in current shape ARE broken and ARE harming game. If this is sandbox why we don't have orthogonal mechanic to wardec? Have you ever read about peacedec idea ?
o101 Alioth. |
Alioth Ursa
Virtual Warriors Axiom Vocation Alliance
0
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Posted - 2017.03.28 20:56:43 -
[2] - Quote
Kieron VonDeux wrote:DRDNOUGHT wrote:Agreed, my post was about those that wanted to play, but where pretty much hounded out of the game by empire wars that are running out of control. And where that line should be has been a running battle between the fascist masochists and the liberal care-bears since launch.
Why won't make it free for all then? What would happen should hisec would be removed completly? Are we expecting huge amounts of new players then ?
I think this is all about setting up right learning curve. I would advocate adding even better reasons to live outside of higsec so the players will WANT to go there and PLAY rather than using wdec-like mechanics which are likely to STOP them playing.
o111 |
Alioth Ursa
Virtual Warriors Axiom Vocation Alliance
1
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Posted - 2017.03.28 21:28:52 -
[3] - Quote
Thanks for the interesting link! Let me just say that I agree that even hi-sec should not be 100% safe yet I also don't think we should have mechanics which - from my perspective - are just supporting lazy griefers ... There are probably better ways to make hi sec interesting place Yulai incident Although it would seem this particular one was not warmly welcomed by the CCP ... My argument would be - why we have invicible concord and annoying wdecs? Aren't these kind of contradictory? Wouldn't that make hisec more interesting (and still bearable for carebears) if there would be no wdecs but concord would not be as efficient in preventing gankers?
o111 |
Alioth Ursa
Virtual Warriors Axiom Vocation Alliance
1
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Posted - 2017.03.28 21:35:01 -
[4] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Am I late for "will someone just think of the children New Players, and by children New Players I mean me!!!" thread # 1,905,312?
If this is considered adult game only I can have some extra suggestions about "new graphics for sun" |
Alioth Ursa
Virtual Warriors Axiom Vocation Alliance
1
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Posted - 2017.03.28 21:47:36 -
[5] - Quote
Bjorn Tyrson wrote: /.../ whats stopping the ceo of one corp from reaching out to the ceo of another that is currently under the wardec and joining forces? and another, and another. wardecs go both ways, by opening up a bunch of targets for themselves, these corps are also opening themselves up to even more reprisal. /.../ there is absolutely nothing stopping HS corps under threat of wardec from doing the exact same thing.
hell even if those corps can't put together enough of a combat fleet themselves, surely between the combined wallets of 4 or 5 corps they can come up with enough isk to hire some mercs to come to their aid. /.../ And why is it that HS is the only place where "oh but we would have to move" is seen as a bad thing? in low and null, if a bigger fish moves into your pond, you either stay and fight or you get pushed out and find somewhere else to settle. .
In theory it sounds good. However I don't think it is realistic to expect bunch of hi-sec corps with no or little pvp experience to be able to setup fleet capable of fighting experienced pvp corp. Whatever fleet they will assemble it will be cut to the ribbons. They won't have intel they won't have proper communication and chain of comand. They won't have fits and enough isk/pilots to survive. And mostlikely they will be denied any isk grinding so once the first few fleets will be lost they will be done. I think that if pve corp is just not ready for pvp it won't learn it by wdec with grinding-griefing-pvp-machine. The hisec->lowsec->nullsec seems like a chain to gradually learn what is needed (while you can still farm isk in hisec). wdecs are kind of breaking this chain.
o111 |
Alioth Ursa
Virtual Warriors Axiom Vocation Alliance
1
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Posted - 2017.03.28 22:03:33 -
[6] - Quote
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
That used to be the case actually. Once upon a time concord was more akin to the faction navy's. They could be avoided. They could be fought. And they could be tanked against. They would win eventually but it wasnt the insta nuke it is today.
And the HS care bears wined and complained and cried and ccp caved and made concord into what we know it as today.
Not sure if it is possible to revert this... I think this would be a great move though! Anyway there are more things which can be done in controlled environment of hi-sec. Why not start making tons of events like "pirate titan @Hek" or "pirate fleet of BC @jita"? All is needed is Game Master and perhaps some pilot-volunteers ... Or maybe concord could lost controll for some time over some systems (incursion like) - so in these system concord wouldn't be able to deploy "regular" IDDQD against pvp offenders?
o111 |
Alioth Ursa
Virtual Warriors Axiom Vocation Alliance
7
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Posted - 2017.03.30 20:11:10 -
[7] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:
True, EvE is a sandbox, but imho, there is absolutely no PvE in this game. PvP means Player versus Player, it doesn't mean PvP = combat of anykind. PvP = competition against other players. The moment you undock with your ITTY V your competing against other haulers. The moment you play the 0.01 isk game you're competing against other players and so on and so forth.
OK, the random Joe PvE player follows his career as miner and the other random Joe follows his career as pirate/wardeccer/merc. They're both existential to the game. Whether you like it or not. Is really as simple as that.
The issue I see with wdec is that it is not symmetric (you can't peacedec or bribe concord to stop wdec) not consistient (you can decline duel but not wdec) and it is actually harming real PvP/ganking. If you let players (like me ;) ) to fly some safe-evening-L4 the other day I will willingly jump to low/null just to have some fight. Really this is win-win situation - I farm one day but then the other I am "providing content". Should you deny me farming-in-stars-over-beer you won't be able to kill me later (lose-lose?).
Thus farmers and ganers should unite and actively fight perma-wdeccers both in space and on forums |
Alioth Ursa
Virtual Warriors Axiom Vocation Alliance
7
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Posted - 2017.03.30 20:12:15 -
[8] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:DRDNOUGHT wrote:...now let the grownups continue this discussion.. Grown ups? Grown ups don't get upset over video games.
but they do over spoiled childreen |
Alioth Ursa
Virtual Warriors Axiom Vocation Alliance
7
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Posted - 2017.03.30 20:17:46 -
[9] - Quote
Joey Bags wrote: My corp gets wardeced fairly regularly by the known permadecers (ahem, Marmite, cough), and the solution is simple. Don't feed them kills, /.../ I didn't quit, I've changed course and doing something else (pretty different too).
These are all good points. You can survive this and a lot of worse. Even lags However - it would seem we have lost quite a few players due to (cought, cought) activities. Do we need mechanics specifficaly encouraging this?
o111
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Alioth Ursa
Virtual Warriors Axiom Vocation Alliance
7
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Posted - 2017.03.30 20:20:04 -
[10] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Alioth Ursa wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:DRDNOUGHT wrote:...now let the grownups continue this discussion.. Grown ups? Grown ups don't get upset over video games. but they do over spoiled childreen No. They don't even do that.
I am still getting upset by misbehaving childreen I guess I need to wait another 30-something then |
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Alioth Ursa
Virtual Warriors Axiom Vocation Alliance
7
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Posted - 2017.03.30 20:24:41 -
[11] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote:To follow to an earlier question about getting constantly wardecced: I used to get wardecced all the time. At this point I just evade them when they come or play an alt. With WHs, low-sec, and alts you could happily run around all day avoiding wardecs. For lulz I tried to find the posts from my first wardec on here when I was a noob miner: http://eve-search.com/thread/969783-0/page/all#38
TLDR: We got war decced, I moved 20 jumps away and made even more money than I had before, laughing all the way.
Yes you can. With WHs, low-sec, and alts. Can hisec-carebear though? |
Alioth Ursa
Virtual Warriors Axiom Vocation Alliance
7
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Posted - 2017.03.30 20:30:34 -
[12] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:[quote=Alioth Ursa] How many? And how many play the game because of what it is and would leave if it was changed?
Honestly - no idea (I am anti-social type anyway). These are very good questions for CCP data miners ... What I can say is that I am still benefiting from fact that the corp has moved to null sec. Should we not have enough senior-guys to arrange this I would be probably overboard by now. Not sure if other care-bears will have same luck ... |
Alioth Ursa
Virtual Warriors Axiom Vocation Alliance
7
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Posted - 2017.03.30 20:46:32 -
[13] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote: So even if a player (new or old) isn't in a Corp that leaves highsec, all they need to do is drop from Corp. They don't need to cut ties, they can still fly with the same people, take part in public chat channels, receive evemails, etc. and play totally unaffected by a wardec whether it's one week or extended.
This would be bearable should we have some in-game tools for supporting this as well. The social (exploration?) type of guild mentioned earlier in this thread sounds convincing to me. It would probalby allow some progression and balancing risk/reward ratio. NPC Corp --> Social Corp --> Regular Corp ...
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:So I'd be asking, if my corp isn't supporting me and helping by advising how I can keep playing during a wardec, why am I in the Corp and paying taxes to it? While in general true the (cought, cought) corps might be too much for many startup corps which otherwise would learn and grow over time (and move to low/null). Just my theory can't backup this with solid data
o111 |
Alioth Ursa
Virtual Warriors Axiom Vocation Alliance
7
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Posted - 2017.03.30 21:15:29 -
[14] - Quote
Azalyn Akiga wrote: /.../ not a bunch of 30+ years old with minds of some damn 5 years olds. /.../ Damn do you behave like this in real life or is it only on the net because you know they will not come and put a straight jacket on you. /.../
/.../ the problem is not the game it is the immature ****** way most players treat each other in this game no one seams to be able to use the brain /.../
/.../
Also show people eve has a grate community and if your 30+ bloody behave your age your not 5 your a full grown adult.
Are you implying we are not treating the game seriously enough and thus we are immature? |
Alioth Ursa
Virtual Warriors Axiom Vocation Alliance
7
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Posted - 2017.03.30 21:59:27 -
[15] - Quote
Azalyn Akiga wrote:I don-Št understand why people are so bloody hooked up on how other people play eve. Can't argue with that (as long as they are not perma wdeccing me that is ). |
Alioth Ursa
Virtual Warriors Axiom Vocation Alliance
7
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Posted - 2017.03.30 22:03:04 -
[16] - Quote
Beta Maoye wrote:To end the wardec arguments once and for all, the game should print in blood-red in the corporation application page that "Once you accepted to join a player owned corporation, other players can pay Concord a fee to ignore their aggressive actions to you in high security spaces."
why? The wdec is just mechanic introduced at some point. Why should we assume it is perect as-is? |
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